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By armelnene
via armelnene.blogspot.com
Published: Apr 12 2010 / 01:25

Can you imagine if Oracle said that Groovy, JRuby or Jython were not allowed to run on the JVM anymore? Or Microsoft saying Java app are not allowed to run on any MS platform through an intermediary (JVM)? Well, this is exactly what Apple Inc. is doing.
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User 218789 avatar

eelmore replied ago:

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Waaaah! I don't want to have to know any language but Java!

Puh-leez. Someone call a Whaaaaambulance.

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RawThinkTank replied ago:

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Scala Scala Scala

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danpfe replied ago:

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I am a Java/Scala/Groovy/PHP/C programmer and I own a Mac. Simply for the reason that some of the commercial programs that I like just don't exist for Linux, but I admit... for my coding needs I dualboot to my Linuxpartition (which took a good while to set up). However, what that retard (sorry) did last week was nothing other than sh*tting (once again sorry) all over our faces and I bet my a$$ there are enough fanboys that will embrace this anti-innovative stance (this is not just about Flash!). What I hope is that this will be a flat fall for Jobs and that coders will abandon IPhone and IPad in masses so that Mr Hubris will re-evaluate his strategy.
,

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polterguy replied ago:

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I'd just like to state that there are many here who loves what Stevie did here. Some of those aren't even "fanbois". I code exclusively in .Net, but I still love this move. Why? Because I hate ActiveX2.0, and this will ram it where it's needed...!

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danpfe replied ago:

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It's one thing to say "We don't want Flash because there may be some vendor lock in issues", it's another thing to say that any sort of intermediary is forbidden altogether. If you code in .Net, you may be aware of Mono and the advances Mono have made on the IPhone. That possibility is gone and even though I spend 90% of my time in a Java-environment, I did work with C# and would have been very interested in the possibility to write Mono-apps for IPhone. Furthermore, what will happen to Unity3D and the games that have been developed using it? Imagine if Microsoft and Sony said: "You can't use any gaming middleware, you must write exclusively for our platform"... The days of "xxx is now available on PS3/Xbox/PC/Mac" would be very much over because smaller studios just wouldn't be able to develop a game for Xbox 360, then for PS3, then for PC, then for Mac, then for Nintendo...

Of course, all this can be solved, ... Valve did it to compile the same game for Mac and PC and other major studios could do that as well., but in this very case I believe that the only reason is that he doesn't want the "is now available on Xbox/PS/PC" to happen to mobile apps....

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polterguy replied ago:

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Many good points here. One thing I'd like to comment though. Ref; "I did work with C# and would have been very interested in the possibility to write Mono-apps for IPhone."

I write apps for the iPhone and iPad in C# and .Net every day! It's easy, you too can do that. I even wrote a blog about it a couple of days ago; http://ra-ajax.org/developing-apps-in-c-for-the-iphone-and-ipad

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danpfe replied ago:

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Well, but whats the point? I will not be allowed distribute my app over the app store. But just as you described in your blog there are ways around. I myself have built webapps targeted towards the IPhone and Android and sure, it works, but it's not like it's available through the AppStore.

And yes, I am still disappointed about Mr Hubris' douchery.

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polterguy replied ago:

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Ref; "I will not be allowed distribute my app over the app store."

Don't you consider "the web" to be a larger distribution channel than the AppStore...?

Don't you think it might be easier to get actual adoption by using URL's, which can be linked to and found by Google etc, than it is to upload .EXE files to Apple...?

The myth of "Create something out of ObjectiveC, submit it to AppStore and become rich" is an infectious disease! Few, if *ANY* have become rich this way. There are about 150.000 applications in Apple's AppStore, my guess is that fewer than 25 of those apps have given their creators a significant amount of money.

Do you think Sergey Brin would be a "fantazillionair" if he created Google as an AppStore app...?

Ref; "I myself have built webapps targeted towards the IPhone and Android and sure, it works, but it's not like it's available through the AppStore."

Who cares...?
I know Stevie does, but why on Earth do YOU...?

When Microsoft released .Net 1.0 they had a t-shirt that said; "Ditch the attitude, embrace the future - XML!"
A good analogy today would be; "Ditch the attitude, embrace the future - Open Web!"

... ;)

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danpfe replied ago:

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All your points are valid and do not get me wrong, I almost exclusively prefer a lock-in free solution over the alternative. In this very case, you could argue that Apple is NOT open, just as well as you could argue that Apple is embracing openness.

After all, Steve did not say: "Stop using the App Store because it's better to use the web without Adobe-controlled plugins", he just said: "Don't you dare trying to put something on the appstore that's not made with our own plattform".

If anybody ever got rich through selling apps on the AppStore I can't answer. My guess is that you are right, it's a tiny fraction of the apps distributed through that channel that made any money to speak off.

Anyway, I think we both made valid points but I still think that this is not about openness, it's about control.

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polterguy replied ago:

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Ref; "Anyway, I think we both made valid points but I still think that this is not about openness, it's about control."

I agree. And in such a regard I don't like it. However the net effect of the thing is that one "ActiveX2.0 vendor" goes down. A lot of developers will realize that they cannot continue depending upon their ActiveX2.0 vendors, and they have to start creating apps for the Open Web, which is a pretty good result if you ask me ... ;)

However, to gain this result, or to get "more" of this result, we all need to explain people how they can build apps for the iPhone *without* resorting to ObjectiveC. In such a regard it's important that people like you and me explain this to others in such a way that they can understand what this is all about, why it happened, and how one can avoid it in the future [hint, by creating Open Web apps]

I guess that's my "mission" in regards to this whole thing...

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danpfe replied ago:

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God if IE6 doesn't die soon I will go crazy... so that's my thoughts on ActiveX :D

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eelmore replied ago:

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^ Fanboi

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ludni replied ago:

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Besides the heat of the last days, I think it is quite clear that Apple is embracing the media-consumers for the costs of the Pros who gain less attention.
And because they are earning tons of money with this strategy they rather will stress that way.

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Armel Nene replied ago:

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This is not about openness and as you mentioned it is more of CONTROL than anything else. At first, the power was with the company; they brought the iPhone and went into a frenzy of marketing. They gain large amount of users very quickly and this looked as an opportunity for developers. Then there were a crazy amount of apps for the device and the power moved to the developers. People wants the iPhone because of the vast amount of apps. Companies cannot control end users and Apple used developers to establish himself and now he's spitting in their face. That's not cool!

OK so what's the big deal with the appstore? Well, the app store makes it easy for end-users to find your app. Do you know how mobile site are currently indexed in any search engine? Nope, not even Google provides mobile optimised sites that look good on mobile devices. This is about user experience; you can develop a mobile site but you won't have access to local resources? How would you develop an app that want make use of augmented reality (AR)?

I hope that people move away from appstores and use the web instead and maybe provide "over the air" dowload of apps as Blackberry and Symbian. As of now, maybe moving to a mobile web strategy would be much better than developing for a single OS or manufacturer.
,

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polterguy replied ago:

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Ref; "As of now, maybe moving to a mobile web strategy would be much better than developing for a single OS or manufacturer."

*TOUCHE...!*

If we've learned anything from this incident, that is the knowledge...!

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danpfe replied ago:

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My point exactly, the AppStore is an IPhone user's gateway to an application. Furthermore, mobile-optimized sites are just that, web sites. Some applications require to actually run on the mobile phone (especially now that IPhone OS 4 allows background tasks). How would you write a web site that needs to use some of the phone's capabilities. I am aware that some features are accessible, but not all. You will still need an app.

Oh well, I think I am done complaining for now. :)

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polterguy replied ago:

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Ref; "Some applications require to actually run on the mobile phone"

I often hear people saying such things, so far few has been able to point out exactly which apps requires to run as .EXE files...?

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