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By mjames
via i-programmer.info
Published: Apr 18 2012 / 11:11

On day two of the Oracle v Google trial to determine the state of Android, we have a shocking admission. If you think about the motivation for the answer that Larry Ellison gave the court, things become even more worrying. Then when asked the simple question: "Is Java free?" Ellison was slow to respond and when pressed by the judge simply replied "I don't know." In the past Oracle, and Ellison in particular, has been keen and quick to state that Java is free. So what has changed?
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User 338269 avatar

Miloskov replied ago:

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That really is not good comment for Java. I think we should begin to think about what will be for Java next.

If Java become proprietary, I will switch to CLR and C#.Net. it is a better platform and language after all. Im with Java because we think is opensource.

User 436144 avatar

mjames replied ago:

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I was going to wait for the comments to roll in about the CLR and.NET but I can't help but point out that they are even more propriety and far from open source. What is worse is that with Microsoft focused on WinRT I don't think I'd be putting my future in .NET at the moment.
As mentioned in the article - there don't seem to be many good lifeboats even if you do want to abandon ship.

User 338269 avatar

Miloskov replied ago:

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But CLR and C#.Net are better integrated, Nice IDE and with resharp even better. I dont care about WinRT or fat client technology anymore. I care about Asp.Net MVC, Razor, EF4, Windows Azure, Linq, Type inference, Lambdas, Generators etc etc.

Anyway You have good points but my point is if Java becomes proprietary it will be in the same boat as C# that is proprietary too but C# we knew from the beginning it is a closed platform Ok, it is driven by Microsoft Ok but is something SURE. With Java even the owner of Oracle Larry does not know if is Open/free or whatever that is hilarious.

I love Java but have been a bumped way since the times of Sun with their rejection of the standardization, Thinking to much if open source or not, then Oracle with all their bull$hit, Google vs Oracle etc, I'm tired of bull$hit. Give something sure to work on, even it is more proprietary I don't care but something I can think only on my projects and relax, thats it.

User 436144 avatar

mjames replied ago:

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I agree with what you say but do you think there will be a WPF 5 or even 6? There isn't going to be another version of Silverlight for example.
The point is that .NET is a technology that is most likely on the way down.
My preferred working environment is Visual Studio and .NET but for new projects I am worried about what the future holds.
Like I said - find us a lifeboat....

User 202710 avatar

wytten replied ago:

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What is truth?

User 226303 avatar

devdanke replied ago:

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Oracle is treading on dangerous ground. Android is the only significant use of Java as client-side UI language. In the post-PC world we're moving toward, Android is one of just two major players.

If Oracle were wise, they'd work with Google to maintain Java's foothold in the mobile device world. Instead, Oracle is suing Google for using Java in Android. Oracle is making Google into a permanent enemy. Even if Oracle wins this battle, it will lose the war: I predict that the biggest consequence of Oracle's lawsuit, is that Google will deprecate Java in Android and replace it with Dart.

Dart has a lot going for it. It won't be difficult for Google to replace Java with Dartin Android. First, Dart is very much like Java. Any Java (or C#) programmer, will quickly feel comfortable and productive with Dart. Second, Dart's main purpose is for UI programming. Java is only "adequate" for UI work. That's why Java never caught on as a UI language. Third, Dart is very similar to JavaScript. This similarity will open native Android app development to the huge pool of web developers.

Finally, using Dart for native Android apps would help Google succeed in making Dart available in all major web browsers. It would increase Dart's momentum and developers would demand that Apple and Microsoft support it in their browsers. (Google itself will do the work to support Dart in Chrome and Firefox.)

User 399928 avatar

Genjii931 replied ago:

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Dart is not a replacement for Java; it's a replacement for JavaScript.

Google would be more likely to implement a new VM that is compatible with Java in order to migrate to some new language that runs on the new VM. Dalvik was made at a time when mobile hardware was VASTLY inferior to today's hardware, and compromises were made that wouldn't be necessary today.

The inevitable Chrome OS/Android merger will hopefully solve this problem, even without this ridiculous lawsuit (which Ellison just blew for Oracle, anyway).

User 338269 avatar

Miloskov replied ago:

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But im getting to like Javascript, I dont want to replace it with dart, I just want to use it and it is a standard language, I dont buy even google languages or offers. Look on what bull$hit boat we are now because we follow a programming language(Sun Java) from a company and it is not standardize.
Do you remember what happen to VB6 people?, They were left in the dust, M$ back stab them with their new .Net proprietary, As I said Im tired of bull$shit and I will repeat it again.

I learned something lately, I will go with the classics languages and standard tools as C, C++, Fortran, Javascript and truly Open Source foundations without agenda as the Python Software Foundation, Ruby, Lua, Perl, PHP.

User 226303 avatar

devdanke replied ago:

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Dart could replace Java on Android.

Google won't implement a new VM compatible with Java. The whole point of the Dalvik VM is that it's not Java. Not using a JVM gives Google the freedom to optimize their byte code for Android.

Even with better hardware, I still think Dalvik's benefits remain. It frees Google from having to support JSE and JME features not needed on mobile devices. The alternative to Dalvik is JME, which failed, but which Oracle is still pushing.

Java just isn't a good UI language. It's still too slow, especially at startup. JVM memory use is still *huge*. Dalvik lets Android overcome most of these problems.

The biggest remaining problem is that Java has become increasingly verbose. More dynamic languages, can reduce UI code significantly. That's why Dart look very appealing as a Java replacement in Android (at least in my opinion).

User 983885 avatar

infovation_Softwares replied ago:

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Lets hope Java gets obliterated, only then jewels like Vala will get attention.

User 338269 avatar

Miloskov replied ago:

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Oh we have back RawThinkTank and his Vala propaganda hehe Welcome back my dear sir troll.

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