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Meh. Website looks messed up... wtf dude learn you a book on programming HTML.

Confused.. complaining about web standards for something that is specific to Windows 7?

The writer is clueless.

Menus are meant to be displayed on an HTML5 page.

The ms-application meta tags are only specific to Windows 7 and has nothing to do with HTML5.

Downvoted.

I think the suggestion is that if a standard tag was used then it needn't be specific to Windows 7 or any other os. This is the nature of standards - any idea that can be implemented in more than one place should not be constructed so that it can't without a bunch of special case code.

Or will we be happy when we have the the metatags duplicated because of different implementations within kde, gnome, osx, maemo, symbian, ios etc etc etc. Yes, they don't do anything similar of course, but they might, and that is another reason for doing things in a /standard/ way.

But that's the point, it needs to use Meta Tags because the feature being supported are all specific to Windows 7 Pinned Items:


- Jump Lists: You can't ask all OSes to standardize to have Jump Lists like "Tasks" or "Common Locations". The HTML5 Menu Tag is about the menu displayed on the page, and can't represent "Tasks" links in the Jump List. Use Meta instead.

- Custom Buttons under the Thumbnail View: Again, this can be different from the things under "Tasks" or "Common Locations". In some cases, these Custom Buttons control media playback. Buttons can also trigger special actions. HTML5 is not designed for that. Use Meta instead.

- Icon Overlays on Pinned Items: No HTML5 tag is designed for that. Use Meta instead.

- Finally, you can't force other OSes to copy the Windows 7 Taskbar bit by bit, and you can't force W3C to standardize the Meta Tags defined by vendors like Google or Microsoft, because those Meta Tags are implementation-specific.

You will understand more here: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/09/17/user-experiences-customizing-pinned-sites.aspx

A "jump list" is not specific to W7. A "jump list" is a marketing term for a list of URLs, otherwise known as a menu in html terms. And HTML is perfectly able to have menus with submenus and images specific to urls (which all an icon overlay is in reality).

This highlights a further problem with this approach in that is confuses presentation with function. All of this is perfectly implementable within a menu, and have W7 interpret it to form a jump list with icons to launch media etc, and other OSs to do their own thing - this doesn't imply a task bar implementation at all, it could be presented in a myriad of ways. The point is that they should leveraging as much as possible what is already in place - the existing standards - so it can be used cross environment.

In this context, a jump list is specific to W7. We are talking about a Windows 7 Jump List.

No one is saying that jump lists can't be implemented across OSes, but someone has to take the leap. We need to applaud MS for making a jump in this realm, for doing someone no one else is doing. After that, we can make CONSTRUCTIVE recommendations without being disrespectful, rather than jumping on the bash Microsoft bandwagon.

I am finding it hard to simplify this point any further than it is already. Someone has to make the leap of course, and in doing so should attempt a solution that is non-proprietary and isn't OS specific.

Criticising a limited implementation because of its limitations is not disrespectful. The idea that respect even comes into it is laughable.

Dude, the contents of the Jump List are Not Always the same as the items on a Web Page Menu. There will be cases where you can fewer items on your Jump List and Not include all your website's menu items. What you're asking for is to absolutely make the Web Page Menu Semantics and Windows 7 Jump List Semantics be equal, when in reality they can't be.

You can obviously have a different menu specified for the jump list contents. Have a read of the article.

I think the writer needs to reexamine this viewpoint. This implementation is specific to Windows 7, and is something that no other browser does. Standards involves discussion, so the point is really moot. Look at border-radius - IE is the first to implement this specific attribute, whereas FF uses -moz-border-radius, and Safari/Chrome uses -webkit-border-radius. We can fish for problems like this, but for once we should be applauding Microsoft for implementing a great new feature.

It is a meta tag, not an attribute. The only parallel would be to implement additional attributes in the menu tag to achieve the specific jump list rendering requirements that a jump list has. But it doesn't appear to have any that aren't already catered for in a menu tag.

Don't be insulting. border-radius *is* a CSS attribute. Ditch this > obsession. It is meant to be used within the body of a document, not the header.

You misunderstand me. I am pointing out the difference between the meta-tag implementation of jump lists versus the attribute implementation of border-radius. Border radius add additional features to existing markup and so suggests how it can be implemented in non-proprietary ways. The jump list implementation ignores existing markup and dumps the whole implementation into meta-tags in a wholly proprietary way.

Even if I was mistaken or directly misleading in my representation of border-radius I struggle to understand how anyone could feel insulted by it.

This is a proprietary offering, so why wouldn't Microsoft implement it this way? Additionally, it's only the first draft. It has a direct parallel to the -moz-border-radius implementation, as that is also a proprietary feature. Just as no other browser will use the msapplication meta tags, no browser will implement a -moz-border-radius property. There isn't any new markup as you suggest, and as we all know, meta tags have existed since the early days of search engines. My initial point was that these things evolve, and if other browsers adopt this feature, W3C will discuss it and introduce a standard.

Based on what? The border radius standard was developed from the -mos-border-radius approach. To achieve an external menu feature like a jump list in a standard way would require an entirely different approach than the one implemented for ie9/w7. Most likely based on the menu tag. This is the only point that is being made here, the approach taken doesn't even suggest a possible non-proprietary solution.

Paul, don't cry over a Meta Tag.

He's trolling guys.

I am not intending to troll, I am just trying to clarify why the meta-tag implementation is limited. Specifically because it doesn't inform us of how a non-proprietary solution would play out. The article we are discussing shows how it could be implemented in a non-proprietary way. Today. It is worth reading.

Based on reality! Again, you miss the point. Microsoft cannot even use the menu tag at this point. The menu tag is being included in the HTML5 spec, and has a specific purpose. Anything short of that, and you fail to meet the spec's requirements. The MSFT solution won't affect validation, nor will it prevent any non-proprietary solution from proceeding in the future. In fact, it is fairly straightforward.

The menu element is intended to display a list of commands, such as "go to this point in a website" or "play this media". Obviously I am misunderstanding something here so perhaps you could explain which features of a jump list could not be implemented in html and so require a metatag?

Don't be insulting. border-radius *is* a CSS attribute. Ditch this > obsession. It is meant to be used within the body of a document, not the header. The