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There is significantly more demand for Java skills than any other language/platform. There are 11,324 open Java jobs listed on Dice.com alone. The next closest option is .NET wtih 7,030 .NET jobs (nearly 40% fewer jobs). Perl has 3,674, PHP has 1,814, Python has 1,109, Ruby has 617, and Erlang has 22 jobs.

I'm sure there are some Java job descriptions that look silly like the one mocked in this article, but most of them are reasonable and pay very well (Google "supply and demand" if you don't understand why).

I hope more uninformed Developers jump over to other languages and produce an even greater demand for Java skills.

This wasn't mocked up, it is a real job req that I received via email. I'm betting others received it as well. And you know you can go out on the job boards and find things similar to this.

And no one would dispute there are more Java jobs than any other area, but there are also a lot more Java programmers than jobs.

Mocked == made fun of.

You're right. My brain automatically saw mocked up.

Too much unit testing with JUnit/JTest using Ant/Maven under WAS/RAD using Struts/Tiles/JSP/JSTL/JSF.

I think by unit testing they meant that you know what it is, they are using jdbc, i can bet they dont write tests

@jonnes

Your lack of reasoning is astonishing. It's almost as if you're lying to yourself about reality to better support your predetermined conclusion.

If there were more Java programmers than jobs, there would be nearly 0 available jobs. Are there a lot of Java programmers? Yes. Do they outstrip the demand for Java programmers? No. Otherwise there wouldn't be a virtual MOUNTAIN of unfilled Java jobs.

Then I don't get it. If there are so many jobs, why are there so many unemployed programmers, and why are there thousands of applicants for a single job. I spent several years in a small town and when we put out a job req, we would get several thousand applicants, even though they would have to move to a small town and all that.

You also can't rely on the job boards for counts, because the job boards don't automatically remove filled positions, and a lot of the employment agencies continuously renew the job listings while collecting resumes.

Spend some time interviewing and you'll have an answer to that question.

At least 80% of the "Java Programmers" I've interviewed couldn't even write hello world (in any language).

Developers with skills are not out of work.

Correct. Just look at places like Sun's forums to see the kind of questions asked by people calling themselves "programmers"...
Of course a lot of those are schoolkids training to be programmers, but with their attitudes and mental skills they'll never amount to anything more than a nuisance on any team. And a lot of them will get that piece of paper saying they graduated, and call themselves "professionals" because they redesigned their parents' website.

Of course another factor is geography. There is likely a surplus of people in some places and a lack of them in others.
With companies ever less eager to pay relocation cost, those surplus people aren't going to apply for those jobs because they can't afford to move and a 5+ hour commute just isn't practical (for example, I was (out of the blue, someone had heard I was looking for something new) offered a job in Abu Dhabi a few years ago, but no relocation expenses, which made it impossible to accept).

Those still out of work in areas where there is work are mostly the chaff left over from the big offshoring hype of a few years ago who were marginal back then and haven't done a thing to improve their skills since.
You'd hope most of them will have retrained for other professions by now, but for many of them that may be too much hard work to bother, they'd rather sit in front of the television waiting for the unemployment money to arrive so they can extend their World Of Warcraft subscription...

The pay seems rather low, unless it's in an area that's very cheap to live in, and the list seems mildly over-stuffed compared to what I'm seeing. Still and all, the skill set needed for full-stack JEE dev is somewhat overwhelming at times.

Thing is, say you jumped ship to large-scale PHP development, you're still going to need 2/3 of the stuff on the list, replacing the obvious JEE-specific things with PHP-specific things, and if you need something PHP doesn't have, you'll have to roll it yourself.

LOW?! this is huge salary!
here in australia we have pretty much the requirements for about $20 an hour less

(that is, we have the same typical amount of requirements)

Yeah, low... Sucks to be in Australia, I guess (although I like it there). You mean $54AUD-$20AUD?! That'd be like $20USD; might as well work retail.

In NYC good developers with 8 years JEE and that laundry list could make anywhere from $60-100USD without trying hard, in Chicago minus ~10-15% depending on location/company. I suspect SF numbers are similar to NYC, but don't really know anymore.

we earn around $35-40 AUD per hour. and that is typical senior developer wage

Oh. Guess I don't dislike everything about the US then.

haha yeah, you guys also get MUCH cheaper fast food... ahh, higher programming wages and cheaper fastfood, now if only usa would accept more aussy visas.

But we *don't* have individually-wrapped processed cheese food with Vegemite, so what's the point.

Seriously, this is a web developer position, and they require certifications: SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD. And they’re asking for all of web, web services, ejbs, UML modeling, database and modeling, and 8 years in J2EE. And all this for the maximum hours of 5200 = 3 months.

5200 hours @ 40/hrs week = 130 weeks @ 52 wks/yr = 2.5 yrs?

Glad you're there! My head is in the sand searching for my... :-)

@jonnes

You're right that this listing is ridiculous. This employer is NEVER going to fill that position with a person who has the qualifications to meet their requirements. Some moron in HR probably dreamed that description up and assigned that relatively low pay. After they realize that they're not getting any applicants they'll reduce they're requirements or up the pay.

By the way, on DZone, you can change your vote :-)

@TheWorld...
I would say (seriously) that this is the *minimum* you would expect out of a decent web developer...?
Sure the salary wasn't great, but unless you know your way around at *least* a list like this, then I think you can forgot calling yourself a developer...

Seriously? You think you can't call yourself a developer if you don't know all the stuff on that list?

I've never used an EJB, and I'm a developer. Haven't used JSF, either. Still a developer. Or ClearCase, Jtest, or RUP. And I don't have any of those certifications (or want them). Yeah, I call myself a developer, I make more than that, and I can't wait to stop developing in Java.

*lol*

newton_dave - the person said "a list LIKE this". sigh.

Actually, he said "at LEAST a list like this", implying that a person calling themselves a developer should know even *more*. Sigh indeed.

the blanket generalization u've used here amuzes me.
alot of developers dont need to use most of those technologies, it really depends what field you are in.

oops, u said jtest, not junit. my bad

low salary? At 40 hours a week that's over €80K a year. That's 60% more than I make with similar (but not identical) qualifications, and my pay is pretty much normal here for that level of expertise (and the title "web developer" would mean less pay as it's typically a junior position, some kid hacking websites together rather than the backend stuff).

Inflated job requirements have been the norm in this industry for over a decade. If you've never seen them before you've led an extremely sheltered life so far.
In times of economic downturn they do tend to multiply though. It's becoming an employer's market out there, so companies can basically ask whatever they want and deduct points (and thus pay) for everything you don't bring to the negotiating table.
That's the game, it always has been and probably always will be.

Case in point, back in 2000 I saw a job posting for a Windows 2000 sys admin, demanding 10 years of experience administrating Windows 2000 based networks.
Last year I saw one requiring 10 years of EJB 3 experience.

Salary here and salary there is apples and oranges. Salaries differ greatly in the States from city to city, it's all based on cost of living. I've been a developer for 25+ years; started out with Pascal. I too have seen Inflated job requirements, but they are getting more and more ridicules. 8 years J2EE is meaningless since J2EE covers everything to do with web and communications, which change almost daily in Java. If you're new to Java, isn't all this a bit overwhelming? That's my only point; severe information overload. And, I believe that is why a lot of developers are out there trying new things.

ridicules should be ridiculous; darn speller :)

Sure, if you're new to Java, it's overwhelming. But people new to Java probably shouldn't be applying for Java positions that require eight years experience, nor believing that a list appropriate for someone with eight years experience is applicable for somebody with zero.

And, when you get there, 5% Unit testing coverage ...

i think what this comes down to is I.T still being a very young profession with very retarded HR/management

Other than the pay and education and certifications and if the post is meant to say "one of the items in each bullet point" then I don't see this as absurd at all. When they say "web developer" they probably mean more that just a "coder". Of the "Required skills/competencies" i am only missing RAD6, WAS6, ClearCase, and Maven. I've used WAS5 and WSAD and have tried out ClearCase in the past.

Some people don't seem to be able to do math. This pay rate isn't low. $50/hr @ 40 hrs/week @ 52 weeks/year = $104,000 annual salary. In New York city, the median pay for a senior software engineer is just under $100,000. So even in an area with high cost of living, this salary isn't out of line.

As for the requirements... this isn't anything new, and is certainly unrelated to Java. The typical requirements advertised by employers for developers is always chock full of laundry lists of this sort. C++ and .NET job ads are no different. This is partially done to weed out the idiots (who apply anyway), and partly because those technologies ARE used by the projects your being interviewed for. This isn't to say you have to be an expert in all of them. Probably none of the current employees are expert in all of them. IOW, this is no different than the employee fluffing their CV with bullet points on things they've only got a very minor knowledge of, only in reverse.

An hourly rate usually means contract. That and the fact that they define the length of time. So it is not $104k in that light. You have to pay taxes, factor in vacation, holiday, sick time, other unpaid work time, insurance. etc. $50 is not so good then.

So sadly, some people are only good at simple math.