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By mitchp
via nighthacks.com
Published: Aug 13 2010 / 12:19

Oracle finally filed a patent lawsuit against Google. Not a big surprise.
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chudak replied ago:

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It would be nice if your server wasn't slashdotted and one could actually read the article...

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dneuge replied ago:

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chopan replied ago:

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broken link
,

User 294135 avatar

chopan replied ago:

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broken link
,

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iirekm replied ago:

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I had a great appeatite to read this article, but the link doesn't open.
Where did you find so bad hosting? :-)

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dd45240 replied ago:

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Larry "God" Ellison and Steve "Snob" Jobs are best buddies. Go figure. Oracle's lawsuit has the feeling of a personal vendetta.

Amazing that Snoracle would go after Google in this nasty way, when Android helps Java remain viable by making it dominant in the mobile space.

I'll bet Google would have been agreeable to licensing or other changes to meet Oracles needs. But I'll also bet that Oracle didn't even try to negotiate with Google.

I guess we'll soon find out just how open Java became after Sun started open sourcing it a few years ago.

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javawerks replied ago:

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The quote from Gosling is the key to this issue: "Filing patent suits was never in Sun's genetic code." Sun was the cultural twin of Google. Oracle is not. I think it's really that simple. Moreover, Oracle has a real case against Google.

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Miloskov replied ago:

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I will agree with Oracle cause is their product/rights/business/owner and all if Java was a new platform and product with years coming of profit but Java is a legacy platform with a lot of history and I think is a huge mistake what Oracle is trying to do now with Java the platform, ecosystem and community, I think is to late. Maybe Google is trying to cash also with Android but thanks to Android Java was becoming relevant again but with this Oracle move push Java to the bottom, even the .net guys are laughing about all this mess right now. About Android I dont care about it, tomorrow I get Nokia Meego and I can develop for it in C++ or Python but the problem here is Java it what it gets the more hurt with this bad move. As someone said since Gosling resigned from Oracle I was smelling the (new Cobol)Java is aproching and we will watch the dead of Java little by little. This is very sad to see lots of efforts and jobs/projects from the Open Source and Java people put into this platform in years and in one day fell down all this. In early 2000's I was loosing interest on Java cause didnt become an ISO standard but Sun begin to speak about OpenSourcing it and let the world drive the future of Java as with Linux and that gain me interested again with Java but right now I fear, doubt and Im uncertain thanks to Oracle about the future of Java. I dont want to live again this and I would prefer to use true open standard or open source languages as C++ or Python that nobody owns and I can work without worry about a company driven your platform of choice to the dead. Thats why also I quited in the earlies 2000's Microsoft products, Look how Visual Basic people lived after that. I hope All this just a bad dream and Java is healthy and we can continue to work on it but if this the true life and Oracle decide to push more deep this bullshit, Im done with Java and I will have to give to Java the kiss of good bye.

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iirekm replied ago:

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Instead of making trials, Oracle should focus on improving Java.
.net is being constantly improved, whereas Java platform development after 2000 is incredibly slow. If we talk about features and programmer productivity, .net wins.
The most huge advantage of Java was its openess (free/open standards, free/open implementations), but Oracle tries to destroy it.
It's hard to say what happens during next months or years; if Oracle continues their policy, Java technology will certainly collapse: it will be neither programmer-productive (as .net is), nor free/open.

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Miloskov replied ago:

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Agreed!.

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chudak replied ago:

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Yeah, .NET is extremely open...

Java slow? Typical FUD. I question the amount of experience you actually have working with java.

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iirekm replied ago:

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Please read carefully before you tell that I'm saying FUD - Java code was slow about 15-10 years ago, but now isn't slow, there are benchmarks saying that it's of similar speed as C++, sometimes even faster.
I meant Sun (now Oracle) did very little to Java in last 5-10 years, comparing to what Microsoft did to .net (Java platform development is slow). This reduces programmer productivity (so Java programmer is often a bit 'slower' than .net programmer).
A have 7-year experience in Java and much less experience in .net (some 1 year), and despite this much less experience in .net, I can usually build a .net application faster than with Java.

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Miloskov replied ago:

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This guy does not read the complete comment? geez, He is saying Java is slow in innovations, Of course Java is not slow in execution since long time ago.

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chudak replied ago:

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Did little in the last 5-10 years? Right. Maybe you ought to go back and review what language features have been added since 1.2

And, considering that the java ecosystem is about 1000 times what the .NET is (free, open source libraries) I'd say you are at a significant competitive disadvantage with .NET since you will have to build many things that are already available in OS java libraries.

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iirekm replied ago:

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Is still do in Java: professionally I'm a Java developer (Java programmers are much better-paid in my area and there are much more jobs), for private projects I use .net.
What was added to Java in last 5 years: static imports, typesafe enums, autoboxing, generics (with the disliked type erasure design) and annotations. C# has gained much more features during that time. There's also Scala for Java platform, but it unfortunately doesn't have good IDE support.

I don't want to begin any religious Java-.net war, but just look at the comparisons in Wikipedia (which I think are quite objective):
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Java_and_C_Sharp#Language_and_features
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_Java_and_.NET_platforms
Java the language doesn't support many of things that C# supports.
Java the platform is closer to .net platform and has a very strong open-source community, but what hurts most is lack of modern GUI framework (like Silverlight/WPF or even Adobe Flex) - JavaFX is still too immature (and appeared at least 5 years too late to become popular).

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Miloskov replied ago:

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Im agree with you but this is not only with Java the language, If Java the language is the problem I will change to Scala but this also affects the JVM level, Oracle does not give a damn even with the JVM so also Scala folks should be worry also. If Scala could run full in .Net clr I will move to Scala maybe at this stage. the problem here is We see Oracle does not like OSS and the Java/JVM community, the JVM including Java it is 100% proprietary of Oracle so as you said the alternative was that Java/JVM ware Open but now I doubt it so are in the same position as .Net/CLR, what you will choose now? are the same thing both proprietary but C#.Net have better features and innovation than Java/JVM!. Me Im tired of proprietary platforms and proprietary languages,After all this disappointed journey I now prefer open languages or ISO's as C++, Google Go, PHP, Python, Ruby, Perl. FreePascal so on.

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Miloskov replied ago:

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By the way, Everything is based on OpenJDK so Java is GPL with the classpath exception, Why Google needs a license with Oracle?, Cause dalvik is based on Harmony? but I think Dalvik already using OpenJDK stuff so it complains to the GPL plus dalvik is open source you can get a copy of the source.

Also I was reading somewhere that Oracle patents Google is infringing cant be applied anymore so it means all this thing is bullshit and Oracle did an auto FUD to their own platform as some people said they shoot their self in the foot. This is dumbest thing Oracle ever did or any company, Even Microsoft is not that stupid, Oracle does not have a case and Java is FREE is GPLed.

Oracle does not have the capacity to control Java and Java the ecosystem and also they suck big time driving opensource. It was a joke Oracle was at the last Linux show they dont know the spirit of opensource, they just know to make money but not with innovation they just buy other companies and cash cow everything. Like a Virus.

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iirekm replied ago:

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Even with fully FOSS languages like PHP, Perl or Python there's a problem: their authors can still be sued for patent infringement, and the case is lost, because FOSS developers may not have money for good lawyers. :-(
Do you know, that Microsoft has found 235 Microsoft patent infringements in Linux? ( http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2007/05/microsoft-235-patent-specific-patent-infringements-in-linux.ars ) Luckily Microsoft isn't as bad as Oracle and doesn't sue FOSS programmers. (although who knows what happens in few years - management in companies changes quickly, so do their opinions)
Software patterns are some kind of paranoia. Patents are to promote innovation, but in case of software patents, mostly lawyers really benefit from them. For example Microsoft started making patents not to earn money, but to get 'patent portfolio' to defend themself after thay lost a patent case in beginning of '90s.
More on this in movie: http://patentabsurdity.com/watch.html

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zerolinesofcode replied ago:

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